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1 researchok  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 11:46:55am

A real 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't' scenario.

2 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 12:10:12pm

The first sentence of this article is just false:

Government officials claim they’re ultra-precise killing machines that never, ever miss their targets.

I have never heard any government official make such an absolute claim.

3 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 12:50:02pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Well, a lot of people have been faked out by Pentagon and weapon makers PR.

There's a little thing in the weapons biz called CEP, Circular Error Probability. What this describes is the radius in which half of a particular weapon fall compared to the intended point of impact.

In World War II the CEP of American bombers was about a mile. Pre-'smart bomb' they eventually managed to bring this down to about fifty metres. The last I heard 'smart weapons' had a CEP of ten metres.

Now that sounds impressive except for two things. A CEP of ten metres means that half the weapons fall outside that area. Sometimes by a lot. The other thing is that 'smart weapons' contain a lot of explosive. A 100 kilo weapon makes for a really big bang.

So I'm not the least bit surprised that they have no idea how many people have been killed by 'smart weapons'. I don't think anybody really knows how many were killed by 'strategic' bombing in WWII.

4 BishopX  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 12:51:29pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Dated possibly, not false. From the nytimes in December 2011:

John O. Brennan, clearly referring to the classified drone program, said in June [2011] that for almost a year, “there hasn’t been a single collateral death because of the exceptional proficiency, precision of the capabilities we’ve been able to develop.” Other officials say that extraordinary claim still holds: since May 2010, C.I.A. officers believe, the drones have killed more than 600 militants — including at least 20 in a strike reported Wednesday — and not a single noncombatant.

I also think it's important to distinguish between missing and killing civilians. Missing is defined as failing to kill the target, not succeeding in killing no civilians. My guess is that the number is actual misses is very low, especially as the US defines it (military-aged males who have had contact with a known taliban/AQ operative).

5 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 1:21:23pm

The article even contradicts its own opening sentence:

In May, an administration official told The New York Times that civilian casualties from the Pakistan drone war were in the “single digits.”

There may be reason to think the administration wants to minimize civilian casualties, but this statement is clearly not saying that drones "never, ever miss their targets." The opposite - he says there have been civilian casualties.

It just bothers me when journalists reporting on important subjects like this one engage in wild exaggerations.

6 Gus  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 1:36:24pm

It would be interesting to know what the Al Qaeda and Taliban body count has been since the expansion in drone operations. Right now both this piece from Wired (which isn't exactly a neutral source) and the report from CIC are inconclusive. In any case, war is hell. I hope people will keep track of the deaths committed by AQ and the Taliban in their covert operations and bombing of civilians once we pull out in 2014.

7 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 4:20:15pm

As a policy matter, how do we know when to stop drone missile strikes in Pakistan? It's been long enough this is a valid question. Maybe it should wait for the election. But it's time to start asking.


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